tv Forum Examines U.S. Policy Toward the Middle East CSPAN August 13, 2017 10:35am-11:37am EDT
affluent suburbs. >> and friday supreme court justice. >> you said at the very beginning of our conversation at we are democracy. that means the judiciary has an important role to play in policing the boundaries of all the other branches. that can make the judiciary and unpopular set of people when they say to a governor or president or congress, no, you it is do that because just not within your constitutional powers. >> watch this week at 8 p.m. c-span and c-span.org. listen using the free c-span radio app. >> now a discussion on the situation in the middle east and the foreign policies of the bush, obama, and trump administrations. this is from political on.
a gathering held last month in pasadena, california. >> hello, everybody. i'm terry mccarthy. i am not getting my microphone working. thank you. of the 72 events we do every year, a substantial portion are about the middle east. i hope i do not have to prove that the middle east is a mess. i think we can take that as given. what we want to look at tonight is how we got here and where we can move forward. we are seeing a problem that cannot be contained within the middle east. it is spreading to europe and our own shores. i will start with david horowitz, who was dubbed by "the new york times" as the intellectual godfather of the trump administration and has written a number of books. david, you have some strong views of how we got here, and also some strong views on how we get out. the floor is yours. >> first, a look at what we are
talking about. in the eight years of the obama administration, 500,000 people have been slaughtered. christians and muslims have been slaughtered by isis, all in the name of islam's god. libya and yemen have become terrorist states. the united states, when obama began, was a dominant foreign power in the middle east. that has been expelled and replaced by russia, which is aligned with two monster regimes, syria and iran. the reason for this is obama's strategic patience, which is really strategic power.
-- cowardice. he has failed to draw the line in syria red to try to stop assad, whom both the secretaries of state enabled by calling him a democratic reformer when he began slaughtering his own people. obama drew a redline to stop him from using chemical weapons, which he failed to enforce. the obama administration overthrew completely illegal, immoral aggression in libya and overthrew qadhafi who happened to have been at war with al qaeda and it is now not only a failed state, but a haven for al qaeda, who had a base. one of the worst things that
obama did was to withdraw american forces from the rack. his general said we need 20,000 troops. to retreat from the middle east. it was his policyto retreat from the middle east. he blamed the united states as a problem. into that vacuum, isis poured , if there had been 20,000 american troops, isis would've been stuffed at birth and 500,000 people would be alive and 20 million refugees were created because of obama's policies in the middle east. of course he overthrew an , american ally in egypt, whereas when the iranian people revolted in 2009, he was absolutely silent because his policy of strategy was was to embrace america's most brutal
enemy. this was the iranians. he concluded his betrayal of the deal with iran. i am one of five people on this panel with these views. [applause] >> keep doing that because the sentiments that reflect 63 million voters in the country, half of the country, and of course the administration in , washington. >> let's stick to the middle east. >> i'm not talking about stupid polls. i am talking about actual votes. who is president, hillary or trump?
if you want to understand donald , trump has been in office for six months. he has put together a coalition of arab states. in those six months, mosul has been liberated which was a chief with isis in iraq. they are on the verge of collapse. 500,000 people didn't really have to die and the 20 million didn't have to be exiled. this is what happens when the united states advocates its responsibility. it is the only great power in the world is with the means and will to protect human dignity and human decency and maintain the peace. the answer to your second question, which is what is the path to peace? the path is to reassert. it's very hard now because russia is there and aligned with iran.
we have two people on this panel will are enablers of these policies sitting to the right of me. [applause] >> i just love you liberals. 500,000 people slaughtered because of these policies. great. apply that, >> david thank you for that. , you set the scenario here. >> set the tone. >> i am getting the sense that david does not like barack obama. call me crazy. something approach specific. david talked about the trump administrations policy to assemble a coalition of arab states. central to that colts and is saudi arabia. it was the first country chosen to visit. are these good actors?
with the united states and growth of extremism. i will leave that there and talk about moving forward. donald trump was applauded by his trip to saudi arabia by many people. here is why we should be concerned. said it will fight extremism. on the surface, we should applaud that. they have been the root cause of extremism the. extremism. they are inserting themselves in the sunni jihad division all over the middle east. maybe david or somebody else can explain that to him. we can look at the fact that he went there and announced a big military aid. the military package had been in the works since long before donald trump took office.
packageed that military to insert itself in the civil war in human and help -- in yemen. they furthered that conflict. again, i will give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he does not know that. you are things to look out for as it relates to his engagement in saudi arabia. his first trip is cause for concern. >> you are a kind of counterterrorism expert. it looks like the war in syria is at least turning down a bit. is limited. fall.is about to
this is not over. future.cerned about the i spend a lot of time in iraq myself. one can argue about whether or not the u.s. invaded iraq. most people think it is a bad idea. we think about whether we should have left in 2011. what should be our platform here? we have pushed them out. where should the u.s. be going forward? >> 2010 my microphone on. -- let me turn my microphone on. it is good to hear these various perspectives. i have a very different perspective the most players. i am a war fighter. i am in intelligence war fighter as well. [applause]
you are good. spent 35g said, i years in the middle east. i just returned from seven years of living in the middle east with a family. i speak many dialects of arabic and have been involved in every in 1983.ombat action now that i put my experience into perspective, i have some things to say about that. all the accusations that fly back and forth, all these things do not happen in a vacuum. they are the fifth generation of al qaeda. al qaeda started in 1988. end of the the afghan insurgency war. it was done in order to stoke the passion of americans to
simulation -- civilization. many believe that islam as a body was divided. that i live in the trenches. i have bled with soldiers. i have seen -- [laughter] >> you have to have the goat for the wedding. i shot the gun in the air when it was time for them to get married. there are important things man. putting that into perspective of the counterterrorism and intelligence of everything that has happened since 9/11, of which i was also a witness,
victim, and rescue her. i know what these people are doing. i have been working with them since 1988. nonstop. now my job is to explain it to you. isis is a manifestation of the .nvasion of iraq in 2003 in manifested because the government of iraq kicked up out of iraq. we cannot stay there when they forced us out. they came about through their own passion. america did not do it. except for the fact that we invaded iraq in 2003. the problem is being solved. hands connecticut on one -- everything you see in most all, the bombing is the dissolving of isis.
itself inmanifested 2014, we carried out 30 plus -- 30,000 plus airstrikes, along the iraqi army to go in. there are the ones bleeding on the ground, who defeated isis in their own country. they are going to be the ones fighting for raqqa. we can pat ourselves on the back. u.s. air force and the iraqi army are doing it. they are bringing about the end isis. and another year, that organization will cease to exist inside iraq and syria. it is open outlook for them. they will not survive. -- okinawa.
they will not survive area except for their children. that is the next generation of trouble for us. they had kids. they are living in refugee camps. we carried out in action in this administration were being -- where we cut the funding to the syrian army. we essentially turned syria, everything west of raqqa over to the government of assad and russia. those guys we screwed because we cut the funding, they will start thinking about the united states as a terrorist target in the future. kineticto keep up the warfare. i take better claim that donald trump is using more of my policies on syria because he
told time magazine last year that the but -- last book you read was "defeating isis." need a joint arab coalition to defeat isis. that is just me bragging. it had a picture is -- pictures in the back. [laughter] [applause] months, all of those have been implemented. i know you paid attention to the maps. that being said, the one thing that has been missing for decades, i have written three books about it. of ther the ideology isis and al qaeda. apocalyptic cult. corrupted them to believe that they are the executor of
god's will to bring about the end of times. their greatest allies are those people in this country and in the west who say it is the one hope -- they are not. i know what the 1.6 million muslims want. a 2017 toyota corolla. what they do not need is to have a small fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of a , and had been equated to people who do not carranzae cron, who -- -- to tell you that the guy is a muslim. right since 9/11 we have been fighting so that the defense of islam.
crazyting islam from this cold is the only way we can be defended -- why have i been fighting for these guys my right or left? everyone that is in this grand alliance we're supposed to have our muslim. are they the enemy or our allies? that is what this administration is screwing up. there are making then our enemies. they are facilitating the x -- the next generation of terror. [applause] >> i want to turn to you.
you were trained in stanford and other places. your expertise is in the, of torture in particular. we spent a lot of time in turkey and the border of syria. the syrian war may be ramping up or slowing down. when the complex are over, these people are not suddenly fixed. there are hundreds of thousands of people who are horribly traumatized. what does that mean for a future? how can we handle that part of this? there are millions of refugees throughout the middle east from not been welcomed by the other middle eastern countries. it has been mostly on the west to handle this problem. what do we do with these people who have been psychically tortured for years and years?
we have on our hands in global health crisis with transgenerational implications. we have on our hands a global health crisis with transgenerational implications. public, stranger to the the stories of ptsd and war traumatized veterans returning. the amount of trauma, suffering, torture that many of these pages have experienced -- they are a very resilient population. speaking to what you said earlier, how are they supposed to thrive in resettlement? currently meet the community needs that they had if we cannot change our narrative? it truly starts with that. there is so much being done that
will continue to be undone by that narrative being reinforced. that is most likely the most toxic aspect of what we can do as a community. protective is the factor. that is what got them through the horrors of what they experienced. closer eyes and think for a second. if you had to leave your home, your house is being bombed, your health falls apart. you pick up your children's bodies and you are running, trying to corral the rest of your family. point, we need to change that narrative. there is nothing that we can do in a rehabilitative sense that contract that component. being weaponize. of induction patterns traffickers and colts are very similar.
they prey upon traumatized, vulnerable communities. it is that narrative that reinforces the very thing that we do not want. it strengthens it. if i could just -- talk a lot the women and children who survived. these children, particularly male children will be susceptible to the next generation. how do you deal with that? >> there is a huge issue. i would love to be able to answer that concisely. i am looking from an overarching perspective. protected. they are waiting for years in respect to trying to be resettled. upon resettlement, being in communities where they are not welcome. they have a short amount of time to meet standards that are required of them in resettlement, paying back their criteriaeeting certain
. for them to thrive is to be welcomedd an -- welcomed and integrated. thing that i think we can do as a public, the counter narrative piece. the details, we could sit here all day from the policies to the therapeutic and medical treatments. it is a system. it takes a village to raise a child. it is a systemic approach to rehabilitating any trauma survivor. this --overloaded by erodeed by this narrative. the bullying of the children. where a child has been radicalized domestically or
ofrseas, and immense amount bullying has been present in their profile. it is just that. i can give you this complex, drawnout argument or i can -- to yourumanity humanity and compassion. that is what i represent. the humanitarian piece. that example that i can give you. that is where we need to begin. none of it can thrive without that component. >> it is hard to keep that human component in mind when you're looking at figures of 100,000. -- 400,000. you are on the security council under president obama. usually -- you took a huge bet. the bet was if we drop the sanctions, somehow iran would normalize.
would become a respectable and trusted citizen of the world. two years into that deal now. how do you think the bet is paying off? >> thank you for having me. i approach these conversations with a lot of humility because i do not think i am qualified, but i bit not think obama made a -- but that iran would make -- become a good actor. we could use an es of sanctions to pressure iran into a diplomatic solution that took us from an incident where obama took office, there were concerns that iran was weeks or months away from a breakout scenario or they could achieve a nuclear weapon.
during the first year of the administration, we disclosed the fact that they had a covert facility used to enrich uranium. obama saw this as a threat to israel, to many of our allies in the region and in a testable -- not acceptable scenario for the united states. to get, we did not have to that point. we were able to cut this deal internationally. an international organization came in and inspect things. facilities and it is working. the way we know it is working is that the trump administration have to reassert that program every 90 days with congress.
the intelligence community knows it is the right thing to do. --ould just oppose north korea is a country where we have had no access or diplomatic overtures, no progress in any way. we know they are working on a miniaturized warhead. they launched an icbm two days ago that could apparently fly far enough to hit los angeles, pasadena. that is an and or mostly dangerous -- an enormously dangerous scenario for us. we have allies like japan and south korea. to bet he made should try resolve our problems to
dramatically has paid off in iran. i think there is hope in the long-term that that can lead to additional normalization of the relationship. let's be clear. separate fromre saudi arabia. there are saudi extremist groups. guys ornot exactly good say a lot of things rhetorically that are threatening to israeli allies. i think what we are lacking in the u.s. is a couple things. one is patience. one is the ability to view world events through a prism other than the prism of washington or the united states. it is dangerous when we talk about the rise of isis or al qaeda as something that was
solely manifested through i think that ignores the fact that people in countries who are making their own decisions and self-determination is an important thing for them. thank you. [applause] tonighty on this panel has accomplished things in their own ways. [indiscernible] [applause] why.me tell you not only a is he the jon stewart of egypt, which is an achievement, not only is he a cardiac surgeon, it's true, but he was almost late for the panel today because he was coming from the hospital where his wife just gave birth to his son.
[applause] >> most middle eastern or czar late unless they are making -- are middle easterners late unless they are making bombs to than they are on time. i am like another middle easterner who enjoys being [indiscernible] by every single administration. [laughter] off is the pisses me hypocrisy. like you said an incredible point about the ideology. in 1988, it came from somewhere
else and from your biggest ally in the middle east, from saudi arabia. when king abdullah died last year, every single american in office, future official, past official, just hurried to his funeral. [indiscernible] terrorist twor a days later. i don't understand what the hell he is doing. about syriak here but totally ignore human. yemen.lly ignore it is 2017, people, and there is cholera in yemen because seti is bombing the shit out of this country with the blessing or while the administration is yelling on because it's fine. they are our allies.
you are the biggest ally with them because they give you oil. i find that critical. [applause] i want to expand the problem is little bit. we speak about islam this and a slam that. it's not about -- and islam that. religion.about it is not a battle to restore islam. it is the battle to restore expression. the military regime is not secular. these are dictatorships who also use religion. [indiscernible] in sudan, when the dictatorship was not going for him anymore, he announced sharia in 1981. in 1980, actually, when he wanted to have unlimited times for election, he announced sharia.
in pakistan, 1981, he announced sharia. there are people who are fighting for a secular view for islam, people who are fighting this extreme interpretation of islam. and you know who is putting them in jail? not the ayatollah or people embark. burqa.- or people in a it is the military secular regime. the west administration time and time again, because each president comes here for four years, two-and-a-half years in, he started three campaigning. donald trump started campaigning after the first week. [laughter] nobody wants to get his hands dirty and it is just the status quo. who will keep it safe for us,
keep it stable? on and on and on. if you want a stable middle east, it is a secular, free at least. [indiscernible] will just come along. that's it. [applause] david, i know what tommy's views were. think, quickly what you where the iran deal is going. andbama who ran proselytized on america pulling out of iraq. [indiscernible] iraq.da was defeated in
the united states had 20,000 troops there. all hundred thousand, mostly christians and [indiscernible] would be alive today. [indiscernible] very knowledgeable. beginning with an apocalyptic cult. read al jazeera polls and surveys in the arab world,, you find that somewhere between 20% and 40% of muslims supported osama bin laden against the west. that's between 300 million and 600 million people. it is a much bigger problem than malcolm suggests. you asked me a question. >> the iran deal -- question. >> the iran deal. >
iranian regime has killed more americans than anywhere in the world. in the middle of negotiations -- by the way [indiscernible] in the middle of negotiations with iran, their spiritual chanted death to america. they are chanting death to israel all the time. the idea that obama would build his whole middle east policy -- and of course, they had a path to a nuclear weapon in their isolated. it was listed with no quid pro quo. iran is responsible -- it took , i am no big fan of
the saudis, but that is the situation there. the duties are supported by iran. >> if they had done nothing, they would have gotten a nuclear bomb. was think obama [indiscernible] that america was the problem. he made it very clear that we were not going to put troops on the ground. we would not exert influence, except for when it came to overthrowing american allies, like egypt. [laughter] by the way, egypt supported the muslim brotherhood, which is the fountain of the jihad against the west. the muslim brotherhood.
it is where al qaeda, where osama bin laden learned his jihadism. it spawned hamas. isis is a monster, an apocalyptic cult. it calls for the extermination of the jews. i have always said that the majority of muslims are peaceloving people. p thatslamophobia craop happened to be invented by the muslim brotherhood to silence critics. there is a big problem. i can go on about it. when i read the numbers, how
many people were killed in the iraq war? like half a million? i don't know. maybe a million because of detentions. a lot of people were killed because of the american intervention in iraq. on the nemesis of the muslim brotherhood in egypt. but i can tell you this lie was created in our own media, picked up by alex jones, and then returned to media. [applause] although that about obama becoming -- being the cofounder of isis extended and we are happy to announce that we started the cradle of civilization. no, we started the cradle of the end of civilization. [laughter] because people are chanting death to america, you know, you
know who else chance of that? that?nts pakistan. i really want to come here and say, all right, guys, do you want to just go and intervene? i am living in this country now and i don't want to look for another billion dollars of military spinach or -- military expenditure. screw the people back there. i don't care. but how much longer do you want to go in? do you want to invade iran? i don't understand. it didn't work before. it didn't work in vietnam. it didn't work in afghanistan. it didn't work in iraq.
it doesn't work, invading other people's country. [applause] later, oh,ght years obama created a vacuum. that is ignoring the problem. i'm sorry. >> we will take questions from this microphone here. malcolm coming ago one minute. off, we have a saying in the military when we run into people who do not know what they are talking about. [indiscernible] civilians. [laughter] think before you talk, read
before you think. from. where the idea came i survived suicide bombings. i read the statistics. iran is not the number one killer. it is the muslims we invaded who were in iraq. they fought us for 11 years. the government of iraq told us to leave. rhetoric, you cannot your way through history and back. [applause] we have a thing called [indiscernible] it's called intelligence. go frickin' read it. >> i would like to respond to
the personal insults here. [laughter] >> in one minute. >> first of all, the problem here is the fact of this panel is ridiculous. he has a point. let him speak. >> you don't ridicule one person. look, the reason we didn't have iraq was0 troops in because obama didn't want them there. that's the reason. al qaeda was defeated in a wreck. >> -- in iraq. >> they were not. i was on the ground. we left that active. do not bring that up. it's wrong. i was there, too.
>> hello, everybody. [laughter] i am a coptic orthodox christian from egypt. i'm sure you all heard about the recent bombings, almost monthly, in the churches in egypt and across the middle east. does the panel believe that the hatred of christianity and judaism in the middle east contributes to the mess in the middle east? against christians and judaism in the middle east. >> there is hate against other muslims, too. people who commit acts of violence against and -- against christians would not think twice before they commit an act of bounce against sick of people, against other muslims.
and there is a lot of people -- against secular people, against other muslims. there is a lot of people. it is perfect because you don't have freedom of speech over there. there is a lot a hate against christians and shia. [indiscernible] one they came out two weeks ago and he said we need to take a break from cursing the christians and the jews in order to curse the shia. [laughter] to focus on al ah to hate to the shia. it was nurtured over years. hate about westborough baptist
church. think about that. >> thank you. so, last month in june, said theykurdistan were going to referendum on independence. how thisour opinion on would add another independent nation or a whole other issue with a nation with significant populations living in three other countries opposing ideologies, especially with leaders in the west who support the iraqi kurds? >> they had the referendum in september? >> yes. spokesperson, we always said [indiscernible]
that was probably pretty naive and did not acknowledgment was happening on the ground. this goes back to something that a lot of people have mentioned on this panel. we have a certain belief system in the united states, even people engaged in the national security community, about how government should be and how governing should be, that it should be centralized, because that is how it is in the united states. but in reality, that is not the way it is in many countries in the middle east. and now we don't have much time, we can go to post world war i on this particular issue. there is an inevitability in it. if you go back to what joe biden was suggesting, a three partitioned iraq. people thought he was nuts. as an average person, i think it
constitution means nothing. every person in this room, unless you are a native american or an f american -- on african-american, because we were a hostages, you are all immigrants in this nation. there were periods when other people didn't want you in here. the great syrian migration is not the 10,000 people who are coming here now. it was in the 1980's when there were hundreds of thousands of them. these are things we need to understand. we can choose to compromise everything america stands for and everything i have defended you for or we can find some way that we take the word muslim and out -- muslim ban out. terrorism band, ok. fine up untiljust donald trump started opening his
mouth. [applause] >> thank you. since this is a middle east panel, i would like to ask a civil question. >> there are no simple questions. peace -- alestinian [indiscernible] [laughter] >> what is the possibility of there being a by state solution? -stateat -- a two solution? and what has to happen? >> i was working in the state department with john kerry when we went at the middle east peace process last time, prior to jared kushner's after it currently ongoing. it is like the golden ring that every american president and every secretary of state wants.
what we discover through the process, which i believe people who work on these issues and experts in the region would have already known, is that it is tough to say a safe solution while netanyahu is. prime minister -- is prime minister. here's the reason why. he is someone who is concerned about his own politics. there are people like that in the united states as well. he is in a sense the mayor of jerusalem. he is not willing to make tough choices and to put his political future on the line. it is not that the other side is faultless either. there is a problem with leadership on the palestinian side as well. that is a core problem. every american problem. -- american president will chase this. whether the united states should be the arbiter is a larger question as well. >> we cannot negotiate these are
people who want to kill you. gaza,n the west bank and a terrorist regime that wants to destroy israel, [indiscernible] completely invented people. >> so that people on the gaza strip are all terrorists? of palestinians vote for two terrorist parties. >> did jesus visit those imaginary people? [laughter] the conflict is a 70-year undovoked aggression to the un's solution. border. back to 1947 that is the first un's solution.
terrific. aggression. israel did not occupy an inch of arab territory. [indiscernible] what about [indiscernible] defeated hither because of his aggressions [indiscernible] >> gentlemen, we are not going to solve the israeli-palestinian problem here. let's move on. thank you, ma'am. thank you for your question. gentlemen in the red hat. >> there is a reason they do it at camp david. [laughter] >> thank you for coming.
i studied international law. i wanted to ask about this narrative that some of you on the panel are posing, that there is a microscopic minority of some cultish very to this long. variety oftish islam. that goes against what i've been learning. 2013 published results showed percentre was a native -- and 80% who agreed [indiscernible] then't understand why are partying with -- parting
with islam when islam does not support minorities. research wassame happening in the 1950's and 1960's. i agree with you. there is a disease, a virus in the interpretation of islam. theou look at the bible and old testament, there is a [indiscernible] christian communities have evolved beyond scripture and they had their own of interpretation of that. same. take the search and -- if you take the same pew research [indiscernible] muslim women are more likely to have a masters degree and to
work in professions than men. i agree with you. think, and i'm sorry to offend everybody, but each has problems, to. -- too. are christians in egypt who are living under the eyes and the nose of a military leadership. their supervision of the region is corrupt. my problem is you have to come back [indiscernible] it's a fight for freedom of expression more than anything. it has to come from within, which is hindered by the same
dictatorship that is supported by the administration. [applause] >> thank you. thank you to everyone else on the panel. thank you all. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017]
an author on the cost of renovation sto the white house. plus the cost of operating the executive mansion. join the discussion. ♪ the road,s been on meeting with winners of this year's student cam documentary competition great at laramie high school in laramie, wyoming, the mayor gathered with family and school officials to accept her first place prize. in golden, colorado, ethan crampton accepted a second-place prize, for his documentary on cyber security. the third place went to 10th
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honorable mentions for their documentary on global warming. thank you to all the students who took part in our 2017 studentcam documentary competition. to watch any of the videos, go to studentcam.org. asking students to choose any provision of the u.s. constitution and creative video provisionng why the is important. >> the carnegie endowment for international peace and washington, d.c. posted this panel discussion on oil and gas production companies, the role in government corruption around the world, and what the international response should be. this is about an hour and 40 minutes.